Discussion:
Who will be the US "Big 3" in 2016?
(too old to reply)
John Horner
2006-08-02 21:21:30 UTC
Permalink
My prediction for the 2016 *retail* US sales rankings:

1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Mike Hunter
2006-08-02 21:37:53 UTC
Permalink
Did you forget the "Cherry" will be here by 2008 LOL

mike hunt
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
unknown
2006-08-02 21:43:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
Mike Hunter
2006-08-02 22:14:06 UTC
Permalink
Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey of
initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.


mike
Post by unknown
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
unknown
2006-08-02 22:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Hunter
Post by unknown
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a
piece of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey of
initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
mike
Oh, I haven't looked at anything new. I only buy what I can pay cash for.
Mike Hunter
2006-08-03 18:58:21 UTC
Permalink
So do I LOL

mike
Post by unknown
Post by Mike Hunter
Post by unknown
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a
piece of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey of
initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
mike
Oh, I haven't looked at anything new. I only buy what I can pay cash for.
dbu.
2006-08-02 22:47:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Hunter
Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey of
initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
mike
They also manufacture large cranes. Toyota is into forklifts. Honda
makes lawnmowers. I read recently where Honda is going to begin
building aircraft for small business. All three are surely making
their mark.
Post by Mike Hunter
Post by unknown
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
--
Bob Palmer
2006-08-02 23:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Hunter
Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer survey of
initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
mike
My company has had 2 new Hyundais in the past year and I find that hard to
believe. The initial quality to me was above the "Big" 3 but well behind
Toyota and Honda. The Santa Fe and the Elantra we have, have many many small
but annoying problems within the first 5000 miles.
Ript
2006-08-18 01:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Hunter
Hyundai recently outscored Toyota and Honda in a recent consumer
survey of initial quality, among new 2006 vehicle owners.
"INITIAL" quality...
give it 10 years...
--
1984 RZ350
Edwin Pawlowski
2006-08-02 23:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
I'm not ready to buy one but they have come a long way in the past few
years.
JohnR66
2006-08-03 00:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.

Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.

IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.

I find myself wanting a Toyota Yaris liftback. I find myself needing
something with better mileage for daily driving (I need to keep the truck
for hauling for my side business). Once I again, the American Automakers are
asleep at the wheel. They don't produce anything that compares to the
Yaris/Fit/Scion. Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
mileage? I looked at the Focus, but the design looks tired and boring after
nearly 7 years.

Next there's the Ranger compact truck. A decent, reliable vehicle that
actually has some Japanese hardware in it, but Ford won't redesign years
after it should have been and the "middle" engine is the anemic 3.0L V6 that
gets SUV like gas milege and has less HP than many 4 bangers (like GMs new
model). The 4L V6 is better after they gave it some more power a few years
ago, but the full size truck mileage mumbers stink.

Next there's GM that dumps the compact truck and intruduces a redesigned
"midsized" pickup in the midst of higher gas prices. Fuel economy could be a
bit better and it still gets the solid black dot treatment with CRs
reliability score - just like the crappy S10 it replaced.

Pontiac. Lets build cars that all the models look the same! Let's make the
GTO a family appeal car. RIP new GTO. Sheesh.

Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the marketplace
and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John
John Horner
2006-08-03 02:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnR66
Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people.
I agree with you, but there is not a single gotta-have vehicle for the
under 21 year old trendsetter in the current GM or Ford lineups. Not a
single one. Two years ago the Hummer was on such a list, but high fuel
prices have put that one to bed.

Even the Corvette and Mustang are really cars for middle age guys who
want another trip down memory lane.

John
John Horner
2006-08-03 03:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnR66
Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
mileage?
Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on
a failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.

Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway

Fit MSRP $13,850
Yaris MSRP $11,825
Aveo MSRP $13,050

So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
vehicles.


John
Mike Hunter
2006-08-03 19:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Aveo MSRP starts at $9,995

mike
Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel mileage?
Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on a
failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.
Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway
Fit MSRP $13,850 Yaris MSRP $11,825
Aveo MSRP $13,050
So much for the Chevy being bargain priced. Of course you can probably
get "deals" on the Chevy while the Honda and Toyota are sold out and not
being discounted, but that again speaks to the desireability of the
vehicles.
John
John Horner
2006-08-04 03:08:10 UTC
Permalink
Sure, if you want a stripped Aveo without air conditioning, CD player or
anything else you can buy the sub $10k special. Almost nobody does.

John
Post by Mike Hunter
Aveo MSRP starts at $9,995
mike
Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel mileage?
Old technology from the Daewoo fire-sale. GM slapped the Chevy name on a
failed Korean car and is selling 'em cheap.
Honda Fit - 33 City, 38 Highway
Toyota Yaris - 34 City, 40 Highway
Chevy Aveo - 27 City, 35 Highway
dbu.
2006-08-03 09:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnR66
Post by unknown
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
first.
Post by JohnR66
I find myself wanting a Toyota Yaris liftback. I find myself needing
something with better mileage for daily driving (I need to keep the truck
for hauling for my side business). Once I again, the American Automakers are
asleep at the wheel. They don't produce anything that compares to the
Yaris/Fit/Scion. Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
mileage? I looked at the Focus, but the design looks tired and boring after
nearly 7 years.
Next there's the Ranger compact truck. A decent, reliable vehicle that
actually has some Japanese hardware in it, but Ford won't redesign years
after it should have been and the "middle" engine is the anemic 3.0L V6 that
gets SUV like gas milege and has less HP than many 4 bangers (like GMs new
model). The 4L V6 is better after they gave it some more power a few years
ago, but the full size truck mileage mumbers stink.
Next there's GM that dumps the compact truck and intruduces a redesigned
"midsized" pickup in the midst of higher gas prices. Fuel economy could be a
bit better and it still gets the solid black dot treatment with CRs
reliability score - just like the crappy S10 it replaced.
Pontiac. Lets build cars that all the models look the same! Let's make the
GTO a family appeal car. RIP new GTO. Sheesh.
Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the marketplace
and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John
--
dgk
2006-08-03 11:52:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by dbu.
Post by JohnR66
Post by unknown
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
first.
If you want to level the playing field, then let's have national
health coverage like all the other industrialized countries. Get it
off the back of the corporations. Why should GM have to pay for it
while Honda doesn't?
Mike Hunter
2006-08-03 19:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you? Why do you think gas cost
$6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax? LOL


mike
Post by dgk
Post by dbu.
Post by JohnR66
Post by unknown
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
first.
If you want to level the playing field, then let's have national
health coverage like all the other industrialized countries. Get it
off the back of the corporations. Why should GM have to pay for it
while Honda doesn't?
Gordon McGrew
2006-08-04 03:00:34 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:08:20 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you?
No, but it costs a lot less than health care in the US and everyone
has it.



Why do you think gas cost
Post by Mike Hunter
$6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax? LOL
mike
Post by dgk
Post by dbu.
Post by JohnR66
Post by unknown
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
first.
If you want to level the playing field, then let's have national
health coverage like all the other industrialized countries. Get it
off the back of the corporations. Why should GM have to pay for it
while Honda doesn't?
William H. Bowen
2006-08-04 06:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon McGrew
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:08:20 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you?
No, but it costs a lot less than health care in the US and everyone
has it.
. . . remainder of the posting snipped fro brevity

Gordon,

The reasons that health care costs more in the USA boils down to 3
points:

1) The citizens of the US subsidize the health care of the rest of the
world. How? Easy - the R&D costs in drugs, medical appliances and
other medical devices invented and perfected here that are used
throughout the rest of the world. You need look no further than Canada
to see the results - the Canadian gov. demands that the drug companies
sell their drugs at the price the Canadian gov. demands they be sold
at, regardless of the real costs, or Canadian law allows the Canadian
gov. to expropraite the patent (which in the US would be a crime
called extortion). So the drug companies transfer their costs back to
the citizens of the USA.

2) The cost of our INSANE tort legal system. I don't think I need to
elaborate on this - folks far more learened that I am on the law have
already sliced that salami.

3) The stubborness of a lot of folks in the US (and at times I have to
include myself in this group) that do not pay enough attention to
preventative care. It nearly always costs more to fix something wrong
with a human if it is let go than if it is nipped while small.

I see the same thing every day with cars too. One of the oil filter
companies had a whole ad campaign built around that - the tag line of
the ad series was "pay me now or pay me BIG later".

Regards,
Bill Bowen
Sacramento, CA
Gordon McGrew
2006-08-04 21:08:24 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 06:13:15 GMT, William H. Bowen
Post by William H. Bowen
Post by Gordon McGrew
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:08:20 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you?
No, but it costs a lot less than health care in the US and everyone
has it.
. . . remainder of the posting snipped fro brevity
Gordon,
The reasons that health care costs more in the USA boils down to 3
1) The citizens of the US subsidize the health care of the rest of the
world. How? Easy - the R&D costs in drugs, medical appliances and
other medical devices invented and perfected here that are used
throughout the rest of the world. You need look no further than Canada
to see the results - the Canadian gov. demands that the drug companies
sell their drugs at the price the Canadian gov. demands they be sold
at, regardless of the real costs, or Canadian law allows the Canadian
gov. to expropraite the patent (which in the US would be a crime
called extortion). So the drug companies transfer their costs back to
the citizens of the USA.
Really? The Canadian government can command a US company to sell its
products in Canada and then set the price? And all the other
countries can do this also? How does that work?

Don't be naive. Big Pharma makes a good profit selling to those other
countries. They are making a killing in the US. Don't believe the
big sob stories about their research and FDA approval costs and the
great new drugs they give us. While there are constant improvements
in drugs, most new drugs launched on the market are little or no
better than the old ones and a new drug always carries an uncertain
risk. And a lot of the research is marketing driven.
Post by William H. Bowen
2) The cost of our INSANE tort legal system. I don't think I need to
elaborate on this - folks far more learened that I am on the law have
already sliced that salami.
3) The stubborness of a lot of folks in the US (and at times I have to
include myself in this group) that do not pay enough attention to
preventative care. It nearly always costs more to fix something wrong
with a human if it is let go than if it is nipped while small.
I see the same thing every day with cars too. One of the oil filter
companies had a whole ad campaign built around that - the tag line of
the ad series was "pay me now or pay me BIG later".
Regards,
Bill Bowen
Sacramento, CA
dbu,
2006-08-04 08:33:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon McGrew
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:08:20 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you?
No, but it costs a lot less than health care in the US and everyone
has it.
I hope IF it comes down to national health care that someone explains
how it will work, how it will be funded and how much we'll have to pay
BEFORE it is voted on. To this day I do not have a clue as to how this
monster would work. Do even any of the lawmakers have a clue. It gets
batted around and everybody rah-rah's it without knowing the intimate
details. Scary.
--
Grumpy AuContraire
2006-08-04 14:08:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by dbu,
Post by Gordon McGrew
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:08:20 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you?
No, but it costs a lot less than health care in the US and everyone
has it.
I hope IF it comes down to national health care that someone explains
how it will work, how it will be funded and how much we'll have to pay
BEFORE it is voted on. To this day I do not have a clue as to how this
monster would work. Do even any of the lawmakers have a clue. It gets
batted around and everybody rah-rah's it without knowing the intimate
details. Scary.
--
If it were to be run like anything else the guv'ment does... We be screwed!

JT
Gordon McGrew
2006-08-04 21:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by dbu,
Post by Gordon McGrew
On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:08:20 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you?
No, but it costs a lot less than health care in the US and everyone
has it.
I hope IF it comes down to national health care that someone explains
how it will work, how it will be funded and how much we'll have to pay
BEFORE it is voted on. To this day I do not have a clue as to how this
monster would work. Do even any of the lawmakers have a clue. It gets
batted around and everybody rah-rah's it without knowing the intimate
details. Scary.
A lot of work needed, no doubt. Fortunately there are lots of working
models to learn from.

If you want to be scared, check out the number of personal
bankruptcies which are caused by medical expenses and the stories
behind them.
Lee Florack
2006-08-05 14:05:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Hunter
Hondas employees in the US do not get as good a wage, benefits, including
healthcare, or pensions as do GMs employees. Surely you do not believe that
national health coverage will be free, do you? Why do you think gas cost
$6 or more in Europe and they have a VAT tax? LOL
Mike. I gotta tell you, this is one of the few times I agree with
you. Anything run by the government is always more expensive -- and
usually poorly run too.
Lee Florack
2006-08-05 14:01:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by dbu.
Their first big step is unloading all the union contracts. They are
watching Northwest do in their unions. GM will follow. Cut overhead
first.
I agree completely. Even if, by some miracle, GM and Ford were able
to suddenly start making desirable cars, the current union contracts
(salary, healthcare and retirement costs) would kill any profitability.

Unions and their stupid contracts have gotta go.
Lee Florack
2006-08-05 13:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnR66
Post by unknown
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Why is Hyundai on the list? Everything I have seen made by them is a piece
of shit compared to anything Japaneese or American.
Hundai is a heck of a success story. Near death after selling a bunch of
crappy cars, they turned things completely around in recent years.
Don't give up on Ford or GM they can make a comeback.
IMHO, their fist big step is making cars that appeal to younger people. All
the teens want Hondas and Toyotas and probably continue buying them as they
age. I've worked for the same emplyer for 17 years and know many people
well. If they're not driving a Ford or GM truck, then it is a Toyota, Honda
or Mazda. Many of the US passenger cars are older models. One minor trend is
a couple of new Ford Fusions out in the lot.
I find myself wanting a Toyota Yaris liftback. I find myself needing
something with better mileage for daily driving (I need to keep the truck
for hauling for my side business). Once I again, the American Automakers are
asleep at the wheel. They don't produce anything that compares to the
Yaris/Fit/Scion. Yes GM has the Aveo, but what's with the crappy fuel
mileage? I looked at the Focus, but the design looks tired and boring after
nearly 7 years.
Next there's the Ranger compact truck. A decent, reliable vehicle that
actually has some Japanese hardware in it, but Ford won't redesign years
after it should have been and the "middle" engine is the anemic 3.0L V6 that
gets SUV like gas milege and has less HP than many 4 bangers (like GMs new
model). The 4L V6 is better after they gave it some more power a few years
ago, but the full size truck mileage mumbers stink.
Next there's GM that dumps the compact truck and intruduces a redesigned
"midsized" pickup in the midst of higher gas prices. Fuel economy could be a
bit better and it still gets the solid black dot treatment with CRs
reliability score - just like the crappy S10 it replaced.
Pontiac. Lets build cars that all the models look the same! Let's make the
GTO a family appeal car. RIP new GTO. Sheesh.
Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the marketplace
and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John
and that their cars have been and in some cases are still less
reliable than their Japanese competitors. And lastly, Ford and GM
are saddled with some very, very high retirement and healthcare
costs that makes each car the actually are able to sell less
profitable. GM and Ford are currently losing BILLIONS of dollars
annually because of all of this.

You mentioned that they could still make a comeback. They better do
something very drastic soon or it ain't gonna happen.
Mike Hunter
2006-08-05 22:40:49 UTC
Permalink
Really? I was at a major old cars show today. Loads of small British,
German, Italian and French cars from the sixties among the Corvairs,
Falcons, Valliants, Nash Ramblers, Hudson Jets, Henry Js, Studebaker Larks,
Willys and even some Chevettes, but only ONE Jap car, a 240Z with only 23K
on the clock.

What ever happened to all those 'superior;' Jap small cars, they're sure not
still on the road. There were more than 30 VW bugs, nearly 40
Nash/Hudson/AMC Metropolitan coupes and convertibles and a half dozen
CROSLEYS for goodness sake and a couple Isettas but only ONE low mileage Jap
car, curious. ;)


mike hunt
Post by JohnR66
Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the
marketplace and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John
and that their cars have been and in some cases are still less reliable
than their Japanese competitors.
Tom
2006-08-06 00:19:40 UTC
Permalink
most likely melted down to be put back into new jap cars.

you actually saw a 240Z??? consider yourself lucky. 99.9% of the 240Z's
made were scrapped after their frames rotted out and the cars split in half.
early jap cars were made about as good as the late 70's gm trucks were.
within 5 years they rusted out so bad you were left with nothing but a pile
of iron oxide dust.
Eugene Nine
2006-08-06 00:39:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
most likely melted down to be put back into new jap cars.
you actually saw a 240Z??? consider yourself lucky. 99.9% of the 240Z's
made were scrapped after their frames rotted out and the cars split in
half. early jap cars were made about as good as the late 70's gm trucks
were. within 5 years they rusted out so bad you were left with nothing but
a pile of iron oxide dust.
But the 70's GM trucks are still on the road, I see lots of them with holes
in the body still hauling stuff around.
TeGGeR®
2006-08-06 02:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
most likely melted down to be put back into new jap cars.
you actually saw a 240Z??? consider yourself lucky. 99.9% of the
240Z's made were scrapped after their frames rotted out and the cars
split in half.
You're not exaggerating about that either. I saw just that years ago on a
240Z that was in such bad shape the owner himself took it off the road.

One day I watched my mechanic hoist that 240 so he could pull some good
parts off. The driver door was left slightly open. As the hoist took the
load and the car left the ground, the entire body emitted a loud series of
groans, creaks and pops, and the ends of the car sagged three inches. We
knew the measurement because an attempt at closing the door failed.

And remember those Macpherson struts that used to pop through the inner
fender and bend the hood? A walk through any wrecking yard during the '80s
showed you where all the '70s cars were...
Post by Tom
early jap cars were made about as good as the late 70's
gm trucks were. within 5 years they rusted out so bad you were left
with nothing but a pile of iron oxide dust.
They rusted very badly, no question. But then so did most '50s American
iron that is now considered classic.

But I think the main reason you don't see Japs at shows is that there's no
demand; nobody wants them. The cars were seen at the time as cheap
subsitutes for the real thing (American cars), and were treated as
appliances. Japanese cars also were rarely made into convertibles or
hardtops, typically the most valuable of collectibles.

What's most popular in the classic/collectible market at any given time
seems to be largely a function of what the owners' fathers had when they
were kids, or the first car they ever drove. I suppose in time there may be
more emotional attachment to certain Japanese models as a consquence of
that.
--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
Mike Hunter
2006-08-06 19:51:45 UTC
Permalink
As well as many Jap cars from the eighties. ;)

mike hunt
Post by TeGGeR®
Post by Tom
most likely melted down to be put back into new jap cars.
you actually saw a 240Z??? consider yourself lucky. 99.9% of the
240Z's made were scrapped after their frames rotted out and the cars
split in half.
You're not exaggerating about that either. I saw just that years ago on a
240Z that was in such bad shape the owner himself took it off the road.
One day I watched my mechanic hoist that 240 so he could pull some good
parts off. The driver door was left slightly open. As the hoist took the
load and the car left the ground, the entire body emitted a loud series of
groans, creaks and pops, and the ends of the car sagged three inches. We
knew the measurement because an attempt at closing the door failed.
And remember those Macpherson struts that used to pop through the inner
fender and bend the hood? A walk through any wrecking yard during the '80s
showed you where all the '70s cars were...
Post by Tom
early jap cars were made about as good as the late 70's
gm trucks were. within 5 years they rusted out so bad you were left
with nothing but a pile of iron oxide dust.
They rusted very badly, no question. But then so did most '50s American
iron that is now considered classic.
But I think the main reason you don't see Japs at shows is that there's no
demand; nobody wants them. The cars were seen at the time as cheap
subsitutes for the real thing (American cars), and were treated as
appliances. Japanese cars also were rarely made into convertibles or
hardtops, typically the most valuable of collectibles.
What's most popular in the classic/collectible market at any given time
seems to be largely a function of what the owners' fathers had when they
were kids, or the first car they ever drove. I suppose in time there may be
more emotional attachment to certain Japanese models as a consquence of
that.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
Mike Hunter
2006-08-06 19:48:02 UTC
Permalink
It was a low mileage trailer queen, that's why it is still around ;)


mike hunt
Post by Tom
most likely melted down to be put back into new jap cars.
you actually saw a 240Z??? consider yourself lucky. 99.9% of the 240Z's
made were scrapped after their frames rotted out and the cars split in half.
early jap cars were made about as good as the late 70's gm trucks were.
within 5 years they rusted out so bad you were left with nothing but a pile
of iron oxide dust.
Scott in Florida
2006-08-06 02:03:54 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 18:40:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Really? I was at a major old cars show today. Loads of small British,
German, Italian and French cars from the sixties among the Corvairs,
Falcons, Valliants, Nash Ramblers, Hudson Jets, Henry Js, Studebaker Larks,
Willys and even some Chevettes, but only ONE Jap car, a 240Z with only 23K
on the clock.
What ever happened to all those 'superior;' Jap small cars, they're sure not
still on the road. There were more than 30 VW bugs, nearly 40
Nash/Hudson/AMC Metropolitan coupes and convertibles and a half dozen
CROSLEYS for goodness sake and a couple Isettas but only ONE low mileage Jap
car, curious. ;)
mike hunt
Mine is on the road....not in a car show...
--
Scott in Florida

'The Land of the Free because of the Brave'
Mike Hunter
2006-08-06 19:50:29 UTC
Permalink
That would have made it two Jap cars at an old cars show. There were more
Fiats than that LOL


mike
Post by Scott in Florida
On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 18:40:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Really? I was at a major old cars show today. Loads of small British,
German, Italian and French cars from the sixties among the Corvairs,
Falcons, Valliants, Nash Ramblers, Hudson Jets, Henry Js, Studebaker Larks,
Willys and even some Chevettes, but only ONE Jap car, a 240Z with only 23K
on the clock.
What ever happened to all those 'superior;' Jap small cars, they're sure not
still on the road. There were more than 30 VW bugs, nearly 40
Nash/Hudson/AMC Metropolitan coupes and convertibles and a half dozen
CROSLEYS for goodness sake and a couple Isettas but only ONE low mileage Jap
car, curious. ;)
mike hunt
Mine is on the road....not in a car show...
--
Scott in Florida
'The Land of the Free because of the Brave'
Gordon McGrew
2006-08-06 04:23:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 18:40:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Really? I was at a major old cars show today. Loads of small British,
German, Italian and French cars from the sixties among the Corvairs,
Falcons, Valliants, Nash Ramblers, Hudson Jets, Henry Js, Studebaker Larks,
Willys and even some Chevettes, but only ONE Jap car, a 240Z with only 23K
on the clock.
What ever happened to all those 'superior;' Jap small cars, they're sure not
still on the road. There were more than 30 VW bugs, nearly 40
Nash/Hudson/AMC Metropolitan coupes and convertibles and a half dozen
CROSLEYS for goodness sake and a couple Isettas but only ONE low mileage Jap
car, curious. ;)
mike hunt
I don't know about car shows but there are many vintage Japanese cars
in private collections. Here are a few links:

http://www.honda600coupe.com/Honda_600_Coupe_at_Route_22_Honda.html

http://www.thisoldhonda.org/collectors.php

Loading Image...

http://www.240sxmotoring.com/19da28fure.html

http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/viewcat.php?cid=32

http://sb1.honda-perf.org/mysb1web/pages/rear.htm

http://www.honda600coupe.com/

http://www.honda600owners.com/

http://www.war-eagles-air-museum.com/72-honda_1.html
Post by Mike Hunter
Post by JohnR66
Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the
marketplace and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John
and that their cars have been and in some cases are still less reliable
than their Japanese competitors.
Mike Hunter
2006-08-06 19:54:48 UTC
Permalink
Perhaps, but there are many more of the cars I mentioned in museums, as
well. The cars I saw were driven to the show, for the most part, not museum
cars . ;)


mike hunt
Post by Scott in Florida
On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 18:40:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Really? I was at a major old cars show today. Loads of small British,
German, Italian and French cars from the sixties among the Corvairs,
Falcons, Valliants, Nash Ramblers, Hudson Jets, Henry Js, Studebaker Larks,
Willys and even some Chevettes, but only ONE Jap car, a 240Z with only 23K
on the clock.
What ever happened to all those 'superior;' Jap small cars, they're sure not
still on the road. There were more than 30 VW bugs, nearly 40
Nash/Hudson/AMC Metropolitan coupes and convertibles and a half dozen
CROSLEYS for goodness sake and a couple Isettas but only ONE low mileage Jap
car, curious. ;)
mike hunt
I don't know about car shows but there are many vintage Japanese cars
http://www.honda600coupe.com/Honda_600_Coupe_at_Route_22_Honda.html
http://www.thisoldhonda.org/collectors.php
http://www.solace.net/240Z-forsale/ebay/IMG_2328.jpg
http://www.240sxmotoring.com/19da28fure.html
http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/viewcat.php?cid=32
http://sb1.honda-perf.org/mysb1web/pages/rear.htm
http://www.honda600coupe.com/
http://www.honda600owners.com/
http://www.war-eagles-air-museum.com/72-honda_1.html
Post by Mike Hunter
Post by JohnR66
Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the
marketplace and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John
and that their cars have been and in some cases are still less reliable
than their Japanese competitors.
Gordon McGrew
2006-08-06 22:13:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 15:54:48 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Perhaps, but there are many more of the cars I mentioned in museums, as
well. The cars I saw were driven to the show, for the most part, not museum
cars . ;)
mike hunt
Well possibly, but what point is there to this anyway? You were
originally claiming that this had something to do with vehicle
longevity, not who had made the most museum pieces.
Post by Mike Hunter
Post by Scott in Florida
On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 18:40:49 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
Post by Mike Hunter
Really? I was at a major old cars show today. Loads of small British,
German, Italian and French cars from the sixties among the Corvairs,
Falcons, Valliants, Nash Ramblers, Hudson Jets, Henry Js, Studebaker Larks,
Willys and even some Chevettes, but only ONE Jap car, a 240Z with only 23K
on the clock.
What ever happened to all those 'superior;' Jap small cars, they're sure not
still on the road. There were more than 30 VW bugs, nearly 40
Nash/Hudson/AMC Metropolitan coupes and convertibles and a half dozen
CROSLEYS for goodness sake and a couple Isettas but only ONE low mileage Jap
car, curious. ;)
mike hunt
I don't know about car shows but there are many vintage Japanese cars
http://www.honda600coupe.com/Honda_600_Coupe_at_Route_22_Honda.html
http://www.thisoldhonda.org/collectors.php
http://www.solace.net/240Z-forsale/ebay/IMG_2328.jpg
http://www.240sxmotoring.com/19da28fure.html
http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/viewcat.php?cid=32
http://sb1.honda-perf.org/mysb1web/pages/rear.htm
http://www.honda600coupe.com/
http://www.honda600owners.com/
http://www.war-eagles-air-museum.com/72-honda_1.html
Post by Mike Hunter
Post by JohnR66
Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the
marketplace and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John
and that their cars have been and in some cases are still less reliable
than their Japanese competitors.
The Bonesman
2006-08-23 21:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Hunter
Really? I was at a major old cars show today. Loads of small British,
German, Italian and French cars from the sixties among the Corvairs,
Falcons, Valliants, Nash Ramblers, Hudson Jets, Henry Js, Studebaker Larks,
Willys and even some Chevettes, but only ONE Jap car, a 240Z with only 23K
on the clock.
What ever happened to all those 'superior;' Jap small cars, they're sure not
still on the road. There were more than 30 VW bugs, nearly 40
Nash/Hudson/AMC Metropolitan coupes and convertibles and a half dozen
CROSLEYS for goodness sake and a couple Isettas but only ONE low mileage Jap
car, curious. ;)
mike hunt
Post by JohnR66
Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the
marketplace and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John
and that their cars have been and in some cases are still less reliable
than their Japanese competitors.
Those cars end up in the junk yards, lets face it, they were not purchased
for their classic styling.
John Horner
2006-08-24 14:57:00 UTC
Permalink
Japanese Classic Car Show: Long Beach

http://www.cardomain.com/event/2005/10/01/JCCS
Spam Begone
2006-08-29 20:08:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Bonesman
Those cars end up in the junk yards, lets face it, they were not purchased
for their classic styling.
Yes they were driven into the ground, also parts become harder to find
as they were then made in Japan and a supply after 10+ years didn't
exist or was very expensive.
My experiences:
1) Honda Civic 70s early model- rad cap after 10+- yrs was $50+.
2) Datsun 510 series- very thin and poorly prepared body metal that
rusted out very quickly.
Very nice car while it lasted though.

3) VW Beetle- very well built and rust proofed body, lasted forever if
one had the time for acceleration and $s for frequent new mufflers.
DH
2006-08-28 20:44:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Hunter
Really? I was at a major old cars show today. Loads of small British,
German, Italian and French cars from the sixties among the Corvairs,
Falcons, Valliants, Nash Ramblers, Hudson Jets, Henry Js, Studebaker
Larks, Willys and even some Chevettes, but only ONE Jap car, a 240Z with
only 23K on the clock.
What ever happened to all those 'superior;' Jap small cars, they're sure
not still on the road. There were more than 30 VW bugs, nearly 40
Nash/Hudson/AMC Metropolitan coupes and convertibles and a half dozen
CROSLEYS for goodness sake and a couple Isettas but only ONE low mileage
Jap car, curious. ;)
mike hunt
Post by JohnR66
Overall, their problem is they are too slow in responding to the
marketplace and seem to clueless in designing cars with appeal.
John
and that their cars have been and in some cases are still less reliable
than their Japanese competitors.
Where are all the old Ford Granadas? Fairmonts? Chevy Citations? Chevy
Monzas? Plymout Reliants?

There used to be fleets of these things, roaming wild on the expressays of
the entire continent. Now... no more...

Back in 1973 - and later, to some extent, a Japanese car was so rare that it
was just about a curiosity. I remember the first time I met somebody who
owned a Subaru in 1972 or so - it was unique in my experience, not just
because it was the first Subaru I'd ever seen but because it was the first
Japanese car I'd ever seen. Until that time, I didn't even realize he
Japanese made cars (I hadn't seen "You Only Live Twice").

So, how often do we find a '72 Gran Torino still on the road? '77 Chevelle
wagon? '69 Ford Country Squire? Performance cars, luxury cars and
convertibles tend to keep going longer but the cheap uninteresting junk -
and Detroit made lots and lots of cheap uninteresting junk - tends to get,
well, junked.

I saw a '79 or '80 Pontiac Sunbird the other day. I'd forgotten these
things had even existed and my brother-in-law had owned one and I owned its
sibling, the Chevy Monza. There were probably 20 of these things built in
'79 for every Crown or whatever Toyota managed to sell into the US that
year. I've seen one. Where are the rest?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Hachiroku
2006-08-03 01:41:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
Make that:
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford
John Horner
2006-08-03 02:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hachiroku
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford
An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action.
Nissan, on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in
bed with at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.

I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.

John
Hachiroku
2006-08-03 13:12:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Horner
Post by Hachiroku
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford
An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a long
history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan, on the
other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with at least
one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much higher
probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
John
GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
California.
They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
the Prizm.
They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
just time for the
proposal and the acceptance.

As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
versa!!!!
(That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
more cheaply."
NOT a good idea!!!)
unknown
2006-08-03 14:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hachiroku
Post by John Horner
Post by Hachiroku
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford
An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan,
on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with
at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much higher
probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
John
GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
California.
They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
the Prizm.
What's so bad about the Prizm? Or are you talking about some prizms made
before 93 that I don't know about. I love my 95' and it seems that most of
the reviews I've read on it are good as well. It's at 140K and still seems
to run stong. Granted I've had to replace the interior door handles, but
those are no biggie.
Hachiroku
2006-08-03 20:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Hachiroku
Post by John Horner
Post by Hachiroku
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford
An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action. Nissan,
on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in bed with
at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
John
GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly
in California.
They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
the Prizm.
What's so bad about the Prizm? Or are you talking about some prizms made
before 93 that I don't know about. I love my 95' and it seems that most of
the reviews I've read on it are good as well. It's at 140K and still seems
to run stong. Granted I've had to replace the interior door handles, but
those are no biggie.
They used a lot of Delco electrics in those, and they just aren't as durable
as Denso.
John Horner
2006-08-03 16:21:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hachiroku
GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly in
California.
They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
the Prizm.
They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
just time for the
proposal and the acceptance.
As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
versa!!!!
(That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
more cheaply."
NOT a good idea!!!)
I am well aware of Nummi and have toured the plant twice. Toyota got
into that venture in order to learn how to build cars in the US. GM got
into it hoping to learn Toyota's production system. The goal was for
the output to be sold 50:50 by the two companies, but GM has never been
able to move it's 50%. Currently the Pontiac Vibe is built there along
with Toyota Corollas and Tacomas. The Vibe is selling badly mostly
because GM's marketing and distribution are a complete disaster. GM can
only seem to figure out how to actually sell a few of it's dozens of
models at any given time and the Vibe isn't one of those.

Toyota, on the other hand, manages to make solid sales on almost every
model in it's line up. Discipline and focus are part of what makes
Toyota run. GM wouldn't know discipline if it met her!

That said, Nummi is in no way the ground work for a buy out of GM.
Toyota management is too smart for such a move.



John
Hachiroku
2006-08-03 20:34:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hachiroku
GM/Toyota have been manufacturing cars for a LONG time as NUMMI, mostly
in California.
They gave us some of the worst Toyotas ever, namely the Nova (~85-87) and
the Prizm.
They are currently manufacturing Tacomas. All the ground work is there,
just time for the
proposal and the acceptance.
As for what Toy would get out of it? Definitely the #1 spot in the world!
And, hopefully, GM would pick up Toyota's Quality habits, and NOT vice
versa!!!!
(That would be my bigger concern! "We can show YOU how to make more cars
more cheaply."
NOT a good idea!!!)
I am well aware of Nummi and have toured the plant twice. Toyota got into
that venture in order to learn how to build cars in the US. GM got into
it hoping to learn Toyota's production system. The goal was for the
output to be sold 50:50 by the two companies, but GM has never been able
to move it's 50%. Currently the Pontiac Vibe is built there along with
Toyota Corollas and Tacomas. The Vibe is selling badly mostly because
GM's marketing and distribution are a complete disaster. GM can only seem
to figure out how to actually sell a few of it's dozens of models at any
given time and the Vibe isn't one of those.
Hmmm....all the Vibes I've seen were made in Cambridge, ONT, along with all
the Matrix'.
I know the Tacomas are made there! Had to pull off the shipping tags!
Toyota, on the other hand, manages to make solid sales on almost every
model in it's line up. Discipline and focus are part of what makes Toyota
run. GM wouldn't know discipline if it met her!
That said, Nummi is in no way the ground work for a buy out of GM. Toyota
management is too smart for such a move.
John
Grumpy AuContraire
2006-08-04 14:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Horner
Post by Hachiroku
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford
An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action.
Nissan, on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in
bed with at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
John
GM is a poor candidate for takeover due to it's outrageous union/pension
commitments. I see the company being broken up and assets sold within
the next five years.

JT
Hachiroku
2006-08-04 18:15:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grumpy AuContraire
Post by John Horner
Post by Hachiroku
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford
An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action.
Nissan, on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in
bed with at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
John
GM is a poor candidate for takeover due to it's outrageous union/pension
commitments. I see the company being broken up and assets sold within
the next five years.
JT
You been listening to Michael Savage again!!!!

I don't very often, but last night he was ranting about Foreigners killing
the US car industry, and then about applying ridiculous tarrifs to imported
cars.

Then, he says the Big 3 don't listen to the Union leaders,

THEN he says the car companies need to back the Unions down!!!

Well, which is it?!?!?!?
Grumpy AuContraire
2006-08-05 04:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hachiroku
Post by Grumpy AuContraire
Post by John Horner
Post by Hachiroku
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
1) Toyota-GM
2) Honda
3) Ford
An interesting take. I can't see Toyota going all the way to the altar
with GM though. What would Toyota get out of it? Also, Toyota has a
long history of being an independent company in mind and action.
Nissan, on the other hand, started out as a company which was always in
bed with at least one foreign company and continues that pattern today.
I can see the long-shot Nissan-Renault-GM deal happening as a much
higher probability than an Toyota-GM tie up.
John
GM is a poor candidate for takeover due to it's outrageous union/pension
commitments. I see the company being broken up and assets sold within
the next five years.
JT
You been listening to Michael Savage again!!!!
I don't very often, but last night he was ranting about Foreigners killing
the US car industry, and then about applying ridiculous tarrifs to imported
cars.
Then, he says the Big 3 don't listen to the Union leaders,
THEN he says the car companies need to back the Unions down!!!
Well, which is it?!?!?!?
Since I never listen to talk radio, I can only venture my view on why
Detroit is doing so poorly.

1. It isn't the foreign competitors killing the US auto industry. The
US auto industry is killing the US auto industry.

2. Hell, I think that the big 3 have slept with the union leaders. How
else did they negotiate wages that even an engineer would be envious of?

3. The time for backing the unions down should have been done beginning
inn the 1950's. Compensation should reflect services rendered.

JT
Lee Florack
2006-08-05 14:29:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grumpy AuContraire
Compensation should reflect services rendered.
What a novel concept! ;-)
Grumpy AuContraire
2006-08-05 16:26:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Florack
Post by Grumpy AuContraire
Compensation should reflect services rendered.
What a novel concept! ;-)
<G>

JT
JXStern
2006-08-05 18:38:14 UTC
Permalink
1) Segway
2) Horses
3) pogo sticks
4) Honda androids

J.
Post by John Horner
1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Hyundai
4) GM-Ford (as a merged company)
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